Buying advice?

[PeterM]

Hi - I just started looking for a boat. Appreciate the info found on this board. It has helped me narrow down my choices. A couple of questions I could not find answers for..... ..

I have a 2010 Tacoma 4wd TRD model. I am checking to see if it has the tow package (6500 lbs?). If not I think it hauls 3500 lbs. In that case I should be limiting my search to a Seacraft 20 or 21, right??? I don't want to buy a new truck. Can my truck haul a 23 without the tow package if I just stay local (Cape Cod)?? Or if I get a trailer with brakes?

Have been reading that the Potter hulls had glass over balsa while the later hulls laid the glass over plywood. The consensus here is that the balsa is better because water doesn't travel through it like it does with plywood. I don't understand this since balsa is extremely porous. Maybe this doesn't matter cuz if i get an older hull I want a rebuilt one. I don't want a "project" boat but I am trying not to spend crazy money

Right now am thinking of looking at a '73 20 footer, a 2002 20 footer, an '84 23 footer, and an '03 23 footer.

Any help here is greatly appreciated - Thanks

[Bushwacker]

Originally Posted by PeterM

. . . Have been reading that the Potter hulls had glass over balsa while the later hulls laid the glass over plywood. The consensus here is that the balsa is better because water doesn't travel through it like it does with plywood. I don't understand this since balsa is extremely porous. Maybe this doesn't matter cuz if i get an older hull I want a rebuilt one. I don't want a "project" boat but I am trying not to spend crazy money . . .

The porosity of balsa also means that resin bonds to it much better than it does to the foam cores, plus balsa has up to 10X higher shear strength! Check out Dave Pascoe's articles on cores and you'll understand why Moesly and Potter chose it over other materials.

Just because a boat is old doesn't mean there is a problem with a cored structure. The key is to drill any holes oversize, fill with epoxy cabosil then redrill to correct size; also drill and tap for machine screws which hold much better than sheet metal screws, whose sharp threads cut into the glass. My boat is all original with solid decks and transom, but I've always carefully sealed any holes into cored structures.

[PeterM]

I read the article. Its clear why balsa is better than foam as a core but the article doesn't address plywood as a core... did I miss something?

[Bigshrimpin]

Originally Posted by PeterM

Hi - I just started looking for a boat. Appreciate the info found on this board. It has helped me narrow down my choices. A couple of questions I could not find answers for..... ..

I have a 2010 Tacoma 4wd TRD model. I am checking to see if it has the tow package (6500 lbs?). If not I think it hauls 3500 lbs. In that case I should be limiting my search to a Seacraft 20 or 21, right??? I don't want to buy a new truck. Can my truck haul a 23 without the tow package if I just stay local (Cape Cod)?? Or if I get a trailer with brakes?

Have been reading that the Potter hulls had glass over balsa while the later hulls laid the glass over plywood. The consensus here is that the balsa is better because water doesn't travel through it like it does with plywood. I don't understand this since balsa is extremely porous. Maybe this doesn't matter cuz if i get an older hull I want a rebuilt one. I don't want a "project" boat but I am trying not to spend crazy money

Right now am thinking of looking at a '73 20 footer, a 2002 20 footer, an '84 23 footer, and an '03 23 footer.

Any help here is greatly appreciated - Thanks

Peter - Tacoma will be fine with a 23. I haul my 23 short distances with a 2004 Grand Cherokee 4.0L . . . trailer has brakes which help a lot, but it does a fine job around town to ramps and back. I have a 5.3 tahoe now that is much better, but I still use the jeep for towing sometimes.

[cdavisdb]

Coring is often used for weight saving. Plywood makes a fine core, but it is much heavier than balsa. Balsa usually comes as squares of end grain wood, properly done, each square is supposed to be isolated by resin, which limits water spreading. Unrotted balsa has very low water penetration across the grain. These two things are probably the origin of the idea that balsa is less prone to water seepage and spread. In my (painful) experience, this ain't so in the real world. Plywood gets softer and softer as it rots, eventually is mush with no strength, but it takes years. Balsa vanishes when it rots and it doesn't take long. Being end grain may help a little, but not much.

[Bushwacker]

Peter,

Welcome to CSC! I think the only reason Pascoe didn't discuss plywood as a core is that it's higher weight basically puts it in a whole different category compared to either balsa or foam. It clearly has plenty of strength and it's cheaper, so it's the first choice whenever minimal cost is the top priority. Nothing really wrong with that, and Moesly used it in the deck of the original 21 and the 19' Bowrider. He switched to balsa core when the inner liner was introduced with the 20' hull, probably to save weight, as he was very much aware of the impact of weight on performance due to his aircraft and racing background. Potter continued using balsa core decks in all of his boats, but I believe the 1980's and later models by SeaCraft Industries and Tracker may have gone back to plywood decks to cut costs.

As you probably know, keeping plywood dry is even more critical than for balsa due to the difference in grain orientation. Unlike balsa where the grain is perpendicular to the surface, the grain in plywood is oriented parallel to the surface and rotated 90 degrees in adjacent layers. Any water intrusion will be wick along the grain in all directions, so the entire deck can get soft much faster than if it were balsa core.

[bumpdraft]

Years ago, I trailered my 23 some 60 plus miles down to Jupiter Inlet. When I got in the area, it began to rain. I went over a draw bridge and there was a red light. No problem, I stopped behind another vehicle in the left lane and I then looked in my rear view mirror. A truck pulling a 21-22 ft boat was going over the bridge and didn't seem to be stopping. Just before he was about to crash into the rear of my boat, he swerved to the other lane and luckily it was not occupied. He was again on the brakes as he just slid right through the intersection. At the ramp, I complimented the driver on his decision to change lanes, but told him I would have felt like killing him if he wrecked my boat. He said he didn't think he needed brakes, he only lived about five miles from the ramp.

[gofastsandman]

Originally Posted by Bushwacker

Peter,

Welcome to CSC! I think the only reason Pascoe didn't discuss plywood as a core is that it's higher weight basically puts it in a whole different category compared to either balsa or foam. It clearly has plenty of strength and it's cheaper, so it's the first choice whenever minimal cost is the top priority. Nothing really wrong with that, and Moesly used it in the deck of the original 21 and the 19' Bowrider. He switched to balsa core when the inner liner was introduced with the 20' hull, probably to save weight, as he was very much aware of the impact of weight on performance due to his aircraft and racing background. Potter continued using balsa core decks in all of his boats, but I believe the 1980's and later models by SeaCraft Industries and Tracker may have gone back to plywood decks to cut costs.

As you probably know, keeping plywood dry is even more critical than for balsa due to the difference in grain orientation. Unlike balsa where the grain is perpendicular to the surface, the grain in plywood is oriented parallel to the surface and rotated 90 degrees in adjacent layers. Any water intrusion will be wick along the grain in all directions, so the entire deck can get soft much faster than if it were balsa core.

End grain balsa is hard to beat, unless you can work with carbon fiber. Now carbon fiber introduces more gremlins. Over bore. Isolate and eliminate.

That little piece of aluminum trim on top of your transom cut out is responsible for many failures. Fresh water is the biggest enemy. Water pools and follows the counter sunk screws down into your core.

Cheers,
GFS

[FishStretcher]

I think the answer with a core is don't drill, unless you really have to.

I haven't experienced balsa dissolving, but I definitely have seen it happen with ply.

But I chose neither- I put foam in my cores. I don't put much stock in Pascoe's article. If what he said were true, then my Divinycel would have cost less than the OSB I laid down in the pickup to protect it for the haul back from Merton's.

I would avoid a 2000 and later boat unless you understand what corners might have been cut on the later boats. There are also a bunch of guys on the Cape who can look at a boat for you.

[pelican]

Originally Posted by PeterM

Hi - I just started looking for a boat. Appreciate the info found on this board. It has helped me narrow down my choices. A couple of questions I could not find answers for..... ..

I have a 2010 Tacoma 4wd TRD model. I am checking to see if it has the tow package (6500 lbs?). If not I think it hauls 3500 lbs. In that case I should be limiting my search to a Seacraft 20 or 21, right??? I don't want to buy a new truck. Can my truck haul a 23 without the tow package if I just stay local (Cape Cod)?? Or if I get a trailer with brakes?

Have been reading that the Potter hulls had glass over balsa while the later hulls laid the glass over plywood. The consensus here is that the balsa is better because water doesn't travel through it like it does with plywood. I don't understand this since balsa is extremely porous. Maybe this doesn't matter cuz if i get an older hull I want a rebuilt one. I don't want a "project" boat but I am trying not to spend crazy money

Right now am thinking of looking at a '73 20 footer, a 2002 20 footer, an '84 23 footer, and an '03 23 footer.

Any help here is greatly appreciated - Thanks

balsa:

balsa,when it gets wet,it turns to saw dust quickly. ANY holes drilled do indeed need to be overbored,filled with epoxy mixed with a thickener,then drilled the correct size.

polyester based resin isn't the best choice for ANY wood coring - EPOXY is allways the choice.

wood is old school - nothing wrong with it....but....it's 2014,and technology is a good thing...
composites : composites used correctly are the way go