Anyone local have a tablesaw? Coffin recore.......

[gofastsandman]

Hey,
Well I`m doin the dirty deed. Pullin the coffin cover as it`s fractured. Gonna try n save it. I`m thinking I can set a dado blade at the right height and put up a couple of fences and rip cut the core out. Happy to supply food , beer, a dado blade and anything else within reason. How bout a fishing trip. I buy n fly.

Hoping not to pull the tank. Gonna take a core sample of the foam and see if it`s wet. It was pretty nicely caulked except the areas that are not accessible w/ out popping the console.I`m taking pictures and taggin n baggin. Hope to avoid a complete disconnect. Will post pics when I`m up to speed. My 1st new digi cam came w/ software I cant get to load on my laptop or 1 at work..... with help

Thx,
GFS

[JohnB]

There is an easier way.
Take an angle grinder and go around the edges of the existing coring. Then take a pry bar, and the top glass will lift right off. Then find a loose spot between the coring and the inner skin, and start working that. I uncored my live well hatch 52x42 in 2 hours yesterday.
Is your coring wood or foam? if it's original, it's eather balsa or plywood. The balsa actually puts up a little more of a fight, but for that, since it is so soft, I just put a big wire wheel on a grinder, and it demolishes it pretty fast. If you skin is already cracked/broken, you just have to be real careful not to make it worse.
When you put it back together, you might want to used epoxy instead of regular glass.
I have a moisture meter, but without seeing it, I would bet it's wet. Almost every one of these old boats has wet coring. I don't care if its a potter or what, they did a poor job of sealing the bottoms of most of these hatches. They were strong, just not water-tight. I doubt they were wondering if it would hold up 30+ years when they built them.

[gofastsandman]

Hey John,
I recored the forward 2 hatches and the bond was still a bear. Just cracked and failed. Not really wet aside from the foam. Ply core and foam in the beveled edges. The riggers hit the core w/ the pull screws.

Popped the console and propped it up 5". It looks like it`ll walk right out the splashwell. Just enough room under the console foam forward under the cooler to get to the 4 invisible screws in the coffin.

Yes I`m taking pics.

Thanks for the epoxy tip, I`d been considering that.
I`m not used to flashing epoxy any tips?

Hopefully, I can use a cutoff wheel and putty knives/flat bars etc. But last time I was close to disaster. Snap is not something I need to hear. I`m voting for mulch.

GFS

[GradySailfish]

Epoxy is somewhat easier to work with then Poly resin...its take a lot longer before it kicks off, giving you time to make corrections as it sets.

Epoxy is also stronger and will be more forgiving if you make a mistake with lets say no properly prepping the piece or what not.

But...epoxy requires very exact measurements when mixing.

Good Luck....sounds like your making good progress.

[gofastsandman]

Thanks for the help,

It`s still hot here and the poly was killing me w/ a 15 min work time. I am thorough and exacting when it comes to prep and mixing. Didn`t think I`d be this far along either
GFS

[JohnB]

This is what I have learned about epoxy vs glass.

Epoxy is much easier to work with that glass. I still build things out of glass, like livewells and cap/patches, but if anything needs to be attached or stitched together, epoxy is the only way to go. You get a much stronger bond than with glass, especially to coring materials or old glass. Epoxy actually has a secondary/chemical bond with glass when you applying it to old glass. New glass on old glass only has a physical bond, and prep is CRITICAL. Not so much with epoxy, it will stick to old shiny glass.

I get all my stuff from Bateau out of Vero Beach. They have a great message board, and great technical support. Delivered to my door, epoxy is about 70 bucks a gallon for their "MarineEpoxy" product. As far as exact measurements, it is a 2:1 ratio, and for small amounts, I use the pumps, and for the big amounts, graduated cups, no big deal.

I have tore a bunch of factory and after factory stuff apart, and it amazes me how easy most of it comes apart. I only had to tear some epoxy based stuff apart once, and that stuff has an incredible bond to glass and penetration into coring materials. The material the epoxy is connected to will give way before the epoxy does. Also, glass kicks in 15 min, and whatever soaks in, in that short period of time is all there is, epoxy will soak in for hours, and if you use the slow cure in cooler temps, many hours. Epoxy is waterproof, glass IS NOT. I think that is why there is so many coring failure with glass hatches.

[gofastsandman]

Thanks guys,

Finished the yard work at 3 yesterday and had the hatch out by 5. Whoever did the caulking went to town. Missed the spots under the pedestals and that`s how the foam got wet.... Soooo I may pull the tank as well and do the poly strips under it. Looks to be ok, but....

The tank was made by aluminum fabricated products out of Perry, Fl. Don`t know if they are still in business but thought it might help someone.

My hatch was one piece. not two.

Thanks for the epoxy 101. Fiberglass isn`t waterproof?
That`s why the decks fail? That`s why Brian asked if I was going to paint the deck while the console is up?

Gonna play w/ the digi cam and see what happens.
GFS

[GradySailfish]

Normal resin is water proof as well to a certain extent. Its not like if you make a mug out of Poly resin that it will leak when filled with water....afterall your boats hull was made with polyester resin. The difference is that polyester resin isin't AS waterproof as epoxy and that overtime water can penetrate the poly resin easier then it can epoxy resin. That does not mean a solid fiberglass laminate will get soaked with water, it also does not mean properly sealed and maintained piece of glassed over piece of wood will get rotten.

Problems occur when screw holes aren't maintained and rebedded with sealant every couple years...stress cracks develop and aren't repaired, new hole and fittings are installed into the deck without proper sealant, etc ,etc. Water gets in there and although it may be a specific location in which it penetrates, it works its way all over through capillary action....rotting out wood cores in decks and transoms all over the world !

Epoxy however has the distinct advantage of being slower cure and therefore allowing greater saturation of the wood. Plus the epoxy itself is a different chemical composition which makes the wood FAR more resistant to rotting then simply poly resin. As a matter of fact, wood coated with epoxy probably will never rot.

Epoxy is expensive, costing about twice as much as poly resin, but for some applications its work it.

[JohnB]

My theory on cored hatches is as follows.

Polyglass is not porious, but over time, moisture will migrate through it. I own a moisture meter, and I haven't found a piece of coring yet, more than 5 years old, that has polyglass on it, that isn't at least "moist", if not wet. Especially if there is a crack or holes in it. Also, if you look at the bottom of the hatches, most are not completly sealed up with glass, there are holes/gaps. Also, many times the water that is on top of the hatches is fresh water/rain water. Many boats when sitting still at the dock or on the trailer, puddle fresh water on their decks. Fresh water causes rot much faster than salt water.

Once the wood gets damp, problems start. There was a lot of "non-marine" plywood put into boats over the years, and this stuff has water based glue holding it together. I think over time, water gets to the glue in the marine plywood too, it just takes a lot longer. In either case, moisture is step one in the failure. If you live up north, and a boat goes through a freeze/thaw cycle, this can excellerate the process too. Wet transom boats up north that have been freeze/thawed have the famous hollow sound since the glass has been pushed out away from the core.

Whether a stress crack or scew, there almost always is a path for water to get in. Once the "break" happens, the penetration of polyglass is so thin into the wood, that the water goes right in, and starts to migrate between the wood and glass gap, and then into the wood. When you use epoxy, it fills all the air gaps the water would use, and goes deeply into the wood. Even if you get a separation between the skin and the core, if you have precoated the coring, water can't get into it. At this point, I think I like wood better than foam, since epoxy seems to go deeper into wood than it does closed core foam. You loose a little on the weight side, but the lower cost and compression strength of high quaility marine plywood offsets it. If your using polyglass with foam coring, the good news is the foam coring is closed cell, and won't wick up water. As for the cost difference between epoxy and glass, the cost per gallon is about 2x, but you use less epoxy to get the same strength. I use epoxy for all coring (transom/hatches), and to stitch or connect pieces. I still use polyglass to build caps, hatches, livewells, and fish boxes.

I am redoing my livewell hatch this week. It was all original, plywood coring, and will post some pictures.

[gofastsandman]

Thanks J.B. and GSF,

My fishin bud, Brian has the same mantra. It aint the salt water that kills em it`s the fresh. I`m planning on keeping my friend until they pry my stiff cold digits off the wheel and had been wondering about stress cracks, screws, and thru hulls. My plan calls for overboring all screw holes etc. and
filling w/ resin n chop, then re-drilling the holes in hopes of preventing future issues.The re-bed of everything on the hull is on my to do list.

What`s the best way to remove the foam? My tank has mounting tabs on the top which are screwed into the stringers...... How should I support the bottom of the tank?

Thanks again for the help,
GFS