Best riding SeaCraft model ?

[bgreene]

Originally Posted by cdavisdb

As built, the 25 Seafari always had I/0s, always twin 6 cylinders, I think. A single 350 1/0 works great(what I have). I've seen various conversions to single and/or twin outboards, but never talked to anyone who ran one. Never seen an inboard model, that would almost certainly require changing the cabin.

Thanks, Denny.

Many suggest I/O's to be hard to maintain in salt water environment - how's it been with your boat ?

[Islandtrader]

Carl (Moesly) once said " a bigger boat will be better than a smaller one" but foot for foot I like the "21".

[Fr. Frank]

I've ridden in every production SeaCraft hull made from 18' to 27' from 1967 to 1988, EXCEPT the 21' and the mysterious 27' SeaVette, (which I would love to find the money to raise the one sunken in Africa).
Hands down the best ride was the 25' Seafari with twin 165hp sterndrives. Absolutely amazing boat!
Next best was the 27' Seamaster owned by the Royal Bahamian Defense Force that was converted to twin transom-mounted 275hp V8 Evinrudes.
That was only slightly better than my neighbor's '74 23' Tsunami (Scepter) with twin 140 Mercury OBs, or the '75 23' SF with inboard tunnel-drive, which two hulls I rate about even.
Even the 18' Seacraft is better than many 21'-23' boats, by far.

[bgreene]

Originally Posted by Fr. Frank

I've ridden in every production SeaCraft hull made from 18' to 27' from 1967 to 1988, EXCEPT the 21' and the mysterious 27' SeaVette, (which I would love to find the money to raise the one sunken in Africa).
Hands down the best ride was the 25' Seafari with twin 165hp sterndrives. Absolutely amazing boat!
Next best was the 27' Seamaster owned by the Royal Bahamian Defense Force that was converted to twin transom-mounted 275hp V8 Evinrudes.
That was only slightly better than my neighbor's '74 23' Tsunami (Scepter) with twin 140 Mercury OBs, or the '75 23' SF with inboard tunnel-drive, which two hulls I rate about even.
Even the 18' Seacraft is better than many 21'-23' boats, by far.

Interesting - questions about the Seafari with twin IO's ...
1. I/O's in salt water use ? Did SeaCraft do anything special -I/O's and salt usually don't mix too well.
2. Fuel economy with those twin 165's ?
3. Fuel tank size and range ?

[bgreene]

Originally Posted by Fr. Frank

I've ridden in every production SeaCraft hull made from 18' to 27' from 1967 to 1988, EXCEPT the 21' and the mysterious 27' SeaVette, (which I would love to find the money to raise the one sunken in Africa).
Hands down the best ride was the 25' Seafari with twin 165hp sterndrives. Absolutely amazing boat!
Next best was the 27' Seamaster owned by the Royal Bahamian Defense Force that was converted to twin transom-mounted 275hp V8 Evinrudes.
That was only slightly better than my neighbor's '74 23' Tsunami (Scepter) with twin 140 Mercury OBs, or the '75 23' SF with inboard tunnel-drive, which two hulls I rate about even.
Even the 18' Seacraft is better than many 21'-23' boats, by far.

Sent you a PM

[cdavisdb]

Music to my ears Father Frank, good info, thanks

On I/0s in salt water: Up north, with short seasons, apparently you can get away with leaving them in the water for the season. At least, so I'm told. I would not have an I/0 kept in the water year round in Florida, not even a Volvo.

On a trailer or lift is a different story. I'm a fan of the I/0. It does have more maintenance than a modern outboard and you do have to be fairly anal about maintenance. but it usually rides better, normally has better torque, you can work on the engine yourself and that old car engine will warn you before it quits, if you are listening. The key is good maintenance. Do that and an I/0 is an extremely reliable system.

Specifically on my boat(s): In 35 years, I've had 4(all volvos) and changed an engine in one of them. Never had a serious failure offshore. Total significant repairs on the drives, 2 bad u-joints (both definitely my fault), one tilt mechanism(0000H are those little parts expensive), one set of power trim cylinders, and a leaky lower seal on one I just bought. That could have been VERY expensive if I had not caught it before any damage was done. Everything except the trim cylinders an the tilt mechanism was bad maintenance, or(the engine) bad advice from a mechanic who was supposed to know what he was doing, but didn't.

Fuel economy: varies a heck of a lot, not sure why. Light load, 3 kmpg. Heavy load, around 2 kmpg. That's with a single 5.7, TB fuel injection, volvo duoprop. Tankage, 100 gallons, figure about 93 usable.

[Bushwacker]

Originally Posted by Bushwacker

I'll forward your questions to Bob, as I've never ridden in the 21 under those conditions.

Bob's reply follows. A pic of him and his 21, the Unohu, is attached below. He's truly an "old salt", a veteran of WWII and Korea, who taught a scuba course like a Marine DI - his students called him Der Fuher and referred to it as a "Scuba Survival" course, i.e., if you survive his knocking off your mask and turning your air off during the "ditch & don exercise" and don't drown, you pass! He's now 84, nearly the same vintage as Carl Moesly, but still follows a daily exercise routine that would kill many younger guys! I also asked him if he'd ever taken green water over the bow of the 21. Another friend and fellow P&W engineer also owned a Moesly 21 named the Osage. (My Seafari belonged to his dad, who bought it new! Lots of Pratt engineers were SeaCraft fanatics back in the day!) The Osage was going out Jupiter inlet one morning in flat seas when all of a sudden a huge wave appeared just as he was approaching the bar outside the inlet, and it broke over his bow! Turns out a supertanker had gone by and was about 5 miles south of the inlet by the time his wake hit the beach! Here are Bob's comments:
"Hi, Denny --

The ONLY time I ever had “green water” come over the bow was apparently when I hit that same standing wave that the Osage hit coming out Jupiter Inlet. The water was "Zamboni" smooth, when I looked up to see this 4 ft. wave in front of me. (Note: freeboard at bow on 21 is 4'10", so wave had to have been bigger than that! -DB) I hit it "square on" and slowed speed so we would not pitch. Instead, we went "through" it ! – Other than that single “freak” wave, we never took water over the bow, even in 8-12 ft. seas. The highest compliment the UNOHU ever received was when a STUPID diver got lost from my anchor. I went to USCG Station at Peanut Is. and requested help finding him. (in 12 – 15 ft. seas !) – (When Bob first moved down here from Orlando, he was afraid the Gulf Stream might “go away”, so went diving every weekend regardless of weather!)

Anyway, the CG Petty Officer asked me if we should go out in my boat or theirs ! – I told him I didn’t have UHF Aviation Freq. to link with their chopper, so he agreed to take their 32 footer. – He was scared out there! – He did teach me one thing though, about the bank just north of LW Inlet off Singer Island. He said: “In that kind of sea, you need to keep her off shore outside that red marker “or it will flat kick your ass !” – I used to warn Everett about it, and typically he would ridicule my concern and go inside to show off. One day he was towing another boat and they BOTH got their asses kicked REAL GOOD !

Beth and I took a 20 ft. wave "Perfect Storm" style out in the Middle one day returning from Bahamas and stopped by USCG. Beth was hysterical about 15 min. It was a rough day and took them 45 min. to get their inflatable launched to motor over and look in TWO of my hatches ! One was a "Glove Compartment" on the transom. I remarked about the brevity of their search and they answered: "We can tell by the way you act." I expressed objection to sitting out there and getting that 20 footer. One of the CG’s said: “That WAS a big wave.” What REALLY disgusted me was here is this 80 ft. Cutter, with the gunwales lined with crewmen standing at “Port Arms” with rifles and AR-15’s, etc.

Sea water came over the transom of Everett's boat (21' Wellcraft Nova) while three USCG guys stood in the stern deck of his boat. A sick girl was lying on the deck in 6 in. deep water. I protested to Senators and Congressman. USCG claimed we were suspicioned because “Nobody but smugglers would cross in seas like that.” – OKAY – If I were a smuggler, I would cross with the “civilian week-end warriors” on smooth days !” – I was PISSED ! – An Admiral gave me some s _ _ t about the incident. I told him the CG skipper sitting on the bridge with his coffee on that 80 footer had NO idea of my situation in that sea. I said I formerly considered the CG my friend. Now I had to regard them as another hazard to face crossing the already occasionally hostile Gulf Stream. Everett and his pal, Van, ridiculed me for being so upset. They were to the “shore side” of the USCG cutter and never saw that 20 ft. wave. Everett has for decades been one of – if not – my best friend. But, there are times when he can be a real pain in the ass.

Never broached UNOHU; although, it is possible to broach and/or “pitch-pole” almost ANY boat in certain inlets, if the helmsman is unaware of the proper way to execute the entry with a strong following sea. Orlando Power Squadron Course (Still have the Book !) taught us to avoid the “Nantucket Sleighride” by climbing up the back of a wave and following it into smooth water. That means: “He who hesitates is LOST !” When you come in the inlet, you gotta’ pick a wave and GO for it ! – Ft. Pierce Inlet can be treacherous in that way -- in presence of a healthy easterly breeze against outgoing tide.

FUNN reminiscing about “back-in-the-day.” bob"

In the same e-mail I also copied CSC member 3rdDay, who owned "Black Jack", another Moesly 21. Here are his comments: "I never felt unsafe even with a rookie / first time skipper. I've heard it's almost impossible to broach the 21. I'm inclined to believe it. We've taken the boat out intentionally on very bad days. Steep fronts and backs in following seas no issues even at decent to fast speeds."

Sorry for the long post but thought y'all would enjoy these comments comments from some owners of the Moesly 21! Denny

[pelican]

Originally Posted by cdavisdb

On I/0s in salt water: Up north, with short seasons, apparently you can get away with leaving them in the water for the season. At least, so I'm told. I would not have an I/0 kept in the water year round in Florida, not even a Volvo.

On a trailer or lift is a different story. I'm a fan the the I/0. It does have more maintenance than a modern outboard and you do have to be fairly anal about maintenance. but it usually rides better, normally has better torque, you can work on the engine yourself and that old car engine will warn you before it quits, if you are listening. The key is good maintenance. Do that and an I/0 is an extremely reliable system.

"On I/0s in salt water: Up north, with short seasons, apparently you can get away with leaving them in the water for the season. At least, so I'm told. I would not have an I/0 kept in the water year round in Florida, not even a Volvo."

could you explain to me why ? and,what's the emphasis on ""volvo" ?

[cdavisdb]

Florida is hot,fouling rate is horrible in summer, all the nooks and crannys in an I/0 are hard to properly antifoul to start with and once hard fouling critters attach, a diver can't get to all of them, lots of boats have stray current problems from their lousy maintenance, I/0s are aluminum, which can be bad news in salt water, especially warm salt water with even a little bit of electricity around, unless you are much more careful than most folks, including me. If you antifoul an drive, you better be damn certain that the applier knows not to use copper bottom paint. That happens down here waay more often than you would believe.

One doesn't have to be around very long to realize that I/0s (or outboards for that matter) don't do well kept in the water in Florida. Not to say it is impossible, just damn difficult.

Volvo: I'm not absolutely sure its true any more, but in times past, at least in Florida, there was little doubt that Volvo drives were more durable, much less likely to quit on you offshore. Volvos can be a pain, damned expensive parts, hard to find competent mechanics and sometimes the engineering is just crazy, but they are very very tough. That includes everything up through the 290 drive. I hope its still as true for the sx drive (what I have now).

Connor

[pelican]

Originally Posted by cdavisdb

Florida is hot,fouling rate is horrible in summer, all the nooks and crannys in an I/0 are hard to properly antifoul to start with and once hard fouling critters attach, a diver can't get to all of them, lots of boats have stray current problems from their lousy maintenance, I/0s are aluminum, which can be bad news in salt water, especially warm salt water with even a little bit of electricity around, unless you are much more careful than most folks, including me. If you antifoul an drive, you better be damn certain that the applier knows not to use copper bottom paint. That happens down here waay more often than you would believe.

One doesn't have to be around very long to realize that I/0s (or outboards for that matter) don't do well kept in the water in Florida. Not to say it is impossible, just damn difficult.

Volvo: I'm not absolutely sure its true any more, but in times past, at least in Florida, there was little doubt that Volvo drives were more durable, much less likely to quit on you offshore. Volvos can be a pain, damned expensive parts, hard to find competent mechanics and sometimes the engineering is just crazy, but they are very very tough. That includes everything up through the 290 drive. I hope its still as true for the sx drive (what I have now).

Connor

outboards are aluminum,right ? outboard brackets are aluminum too,right ?
does just the aluminum from an outdrive attract these problems ?

neighboring boats - poorly maintained neighboring boats,just a florida thing too ?

in good ol' new jersey,most boats i service are in the water from april to december,that's 9 months - the water temp,it gets into the 80's here in the summer- i have quite a few clients with stern drive powered boats,in excess of 10yrs old,boats have had ZERO problems with drives,as well as hydraulics on the drives...

copper based paint,antifouling paint,on an aluminum surface is a recipe for disaster - pople often overlook this,boat mfg's often overlook this as well - it facinates me...

it's been my experience:

stern drives,the problems are often "self inflicted",meaning,lack of maintnance nothin wrong with a stern drive power system,my own sea craft's I/O powered - what's that tell ya ?