took her under the knife (need some opinions)

[SonOfABeach]

As I said in my other post, I was suspicious of my transom after drilling a thru-hull and what looked life coffee came out, so took advantage of the long weekend to do some investigating.

Took off the engine and put it on a stand. The engine bolts came out with a nice wet brownness all over them, and some probing around the holes showed even more that at least that area was soaked. Took some hardware off in other places (ladder mounts, kicker engine mount, etc) and the same showed there. Spent friday night taking off the old hardware on the back, pulling back the rub rails, getting her ready to go under the knife.

Spent saturday morning fishing for king mackerel (which neither him nor mr cobia showed their face ), and then sat night at a DC United game with some friends (tied 0-0).


Came back sunday eager to work on her again and taped out my line and got to cutting.


After lots (and I mean LOTS) of chiseling, and prying, and using a floor jack to apply pressure, the "welds" finally popped and the back end came off. (My dad in the picture, he and my brother in law lended a helping hand in all of this.



When we pulled off the cut section this happened to fall off, and even though its a dead nest we got a visit from two very upset wasps that didnt like us cutting up their new home, after they were dispatched we went back to work.



Then it was time to get to work cutting off and peeling back the inner transom skin.



After cutting and peeling/prying off the inner skin (the outer skin was ironically completely delaminated, had I done this from the outside it would just have been a matter of cutting) the skin was removed to reveal an entire transom of this:


Not one part of the transom was remotely dry, and everything but the bottom inch or two on the starboard side was completely rotted and just fell off (which made it pretty easy to remove).


After some hours and some liquid encouragement,


my transom started to get clean (its completely clean and ground down now just havent taken a picture yet).


My brother-in-law got bored I guess and decided to connect with his inner artist ala SeaCraft.


I have yet to weigh it, which I guess it might be wasted now since it probably dried out some being out of the transom, but filled up an entire transom of rotted wood chunks.



Now my plan was to do what you guys suggested and raise the transom 5", but my parents are extremely generous with their money, and unlike my sister's I've never asked them for a dime so after watching me search for a replacement lower unit (needed a 76-77 200hp lower unit for my old engine that neither I nor my local dealer could locate) for a month +, they decided to bless me with...



A new 2008 Suzuki 175hp 4 Stroke 20" shaft (they went with a 20" because they, nor I, knew the transom was bad so the plan was just to swap the engines out). Which I know you guys are gonna say thats in the upper end of power for this boat, but if you dont look one gift horse in the mouth, you sure as hell don't do it to 175 gift horses . I also tried calling up the outboard shop they bought it from (they didnt go with our local dealer because a larger one about two hours away beat their price by $3700, which upset my local guy a bit but he admitted he would have done the same in my place and would gladly install it for me) and tried to see if I could trade it out for a 25", who gave me the run around and then said that they could but they only had 2009 25" now so it would be $1300 more (two days before they had 25" 2008's... I guess thats what happens when you go for the larger cheaper less friendly operation though), which I don't have $1300 more to throw around (this transom rebuild is stretchin me now haha), and I'm sure as heck not asking my parents for anything right after they gave me this, so I'm building the transom back to 20", with some modifications. I'm going to close my transom notch to the smallest I can with the new engine and still be able to turn fully. I'm also going to build a splashWALL around the splashwell, essentially making the two hatches on either side seats and not allowing a wave to come over the stern into the boat, but rather just hit the wall and then drain out. My dad's 28' Master Marine CC has something similar. I've cad'd up a little diagram to help show what I'm talking about.


Just built into the lip around where the splashwell is now, and along the sides of those hatches (but still giving them clearance to open) glass in a wall. I think I've seen another boat on here (maybe a 23') that did something similar, but cant seem to find it now.

Most of my fishing in this boat will be in the inlets/chesapeake bay, maybe off the beach in the oceanfront on nice days (we have my dad's boat for offshore), so I'm not really concerned terribly about a wave coming over the back, but I think this idea will help keep me safer/dryer if that happens.

So I would like some feedback, hows my destruction of the old transom lookin? I studied and studied the threads on here before starting and I cant even begin to say how greatful I am that this site and you guys exists.

I'm gonna try and go back with Coosa vs plywood because of the weight I'm adding to the back of the boat with the heavier engine (~100lbs more than the 200hp Johnson that was on it), just the sticker shock is getting to me. I've also moved both batteries up to under the front console seat to help adjust the weight, anything else I can do to help with offset the heavier engine, is this gonna be a huge problem?

Also when I cut the center stringer back to allow me to remove the old inner skin, I just so happen to sniff the wood block I cut out, and it smelled very strongly of gasoline. The previous owner said he replaced the tank (and did a botchy job on the outside at least, including rather than routing to the existing filling port, cut a whole in the hatch under the console and adding a port there), I'm not sure why he replaced the tank (possibly because the old one was leaking) but I feel that now I must rip up the t-top/console and investigate the situation, do you guys agree? Would a stringer still smell of gasoline from leaky tank replaced a year+ ago?

As far as the rebuild, my list (tentative you guy's approval) goes:

• layer of 1708 on the outer skin to beef it up
• core (either 1.5" coosa or (2) 3/4" AB douglas fir marine plywood glued together w/ thickened resin)
• 4-5 layers of 1708/1808 alternating
• expand back the stringers and tie them in w/ new knees to the transom

How does that sound? Vinylester is ok to use for all of this yes?

Also would it be wise to close up the thru-hull scupper holes and go ahead and change to thru-transom scuppers w/ the ping pong balls since I'm adding the extra weight and possibly screwing up the self bailingness of the boat?

Thanks for looking and any advice/encouragement you have to offer, it took working up some courage to take a saw to her, you guys who have done it before me are brave souls indeed.

[Bushwacker]

Good idea to build raised splashwell since you're staying with 20" transom and your drawings are a good start. Potter came up with a bolt-in full height splash well "wall" on the later 20's. If you search thru the literature section for the late '70's models, you might be able to find a picture of it to get some ideas. That cutout sure is wide, maybe for twins? Again, search the literature for pictures on early models, which had a much narrower cutout. You should be able to find an installation drawing on Zuke website to get an idea of how narrow cutout can be and how much clearance you'll need to tilt motor all the way up. Might need a fold down door in front of it like was used on the 23 to accommodate full tilt.

It's a LOT less work to repair transom from outside - just use a cutoff wheel about 2-3" from outside edge all around to remove outer skin. I'd go with the Coosa to save weight, as you're gonna be stern heavy. Search Carla's posts (65Bowrider)for details of installing the Coosa transom in their 21' - we had lots of good advice from a friend that's a professional fiberglass repairman. His advice was to use epoxy because of it's superior bond strength; the extra cost is a nit compared to the labor you'll be putting into this thing!! Moving batteries to console is a good idea, as is moving scuppers to transom.

The fuel smell sounds suspicious! SeaCraft never foamed in their tanks, which is why there are bilge vents. I'd check that tank to make sure it wasn't foamed in, which is a bad idea unless tank was coated with coal tar epoxy. Previous tank could have been foamed in, corroded, leaked into foam, and they didn't remove the foam when they replaced the tank! Check out Dave Pasco's article on fuel tank installation - it's a real eye opener! Fuel tank installation.

Good luck with your restoration! That'll be a nice rig when it's done!

[gofastsandman]

The sharing of info on the site is invaluable.
1. What is the weight of the new Zuke?
2. Do you have a shameless friend?
3. Are you up for a slightly covert op?

I think weight is an issue you want to think about.
Lots of folks here love the 140 4s Zuke. I have a `96 rude 150 @ 365 #s. 900 hrs. Power is not an issue...weight is.
I took water thru the transom scuppers by myself w/ a light load, while being sent to the corner.

Why not send a friend into your dealer and inquire about a 140?
Your parents will be happy you looked into the future and made a good decision after "careful deliberation"
GFS

[countshock]

I have a splashwall for my 20' (not installed, takes up too much room) I'll try and take some pics of it and post for you.

[SonOfABeach]

Thanks for the reply's all Info like this is exactly what I was hoping for.

bushwacker - Thanks for the tip on 65bowrider, been reading over this thread, good stuff. Trying to find a locale distributor of coosa, closest I've found so far is 5 hours away and $495 for a 1.5" sheet Just emailed Coosa, hopefully I can get a distributor list or something. I see that you helped him out with his transom, do you know what kind of Coosa it was (bluewater 26 or 20), wondering if 20 is strong enough for the job (15% lighter than 26). Also that fuel tank info was great!

gfs - the 175 is 474lbs vs 420lbs for the 140, 54lb difference for the power. I think I'm sticking with the 175, the dealer is 2.5 hours away, so its not just a matter of walking in to chat. I've moved the batteries forward, I can move my fuel tank forward a bit (more on that later in this post), maybe keep a couple gallons of water in the anchor locker up front if need be to help balance.

countshock - that would be awesome if you could. much appreciated. I looked around the literature but couldnt seem to find what bushwacker was talking about, I'll keep looking though. A pic would definitely help.

I popped up the console and investigated the tank situation and boy am I glad I did. Opened the hatch up and found the tank turned a little cockeye'd in there. Turns out the previous owner installed a new tank, plumbed it, but decided that he didnt need to secure it in any way, it was just sitting on the floor of the built in coffin. The only thing keeping it in place were the hoses. I cant imagine what would of happened if I had filled that up on good faith from him and tried to run with that thing pounding around inside there. No sign of any kind of leak, pretty clean in there too, tank in good condition, think I should get it pressure tested. Also, reading Dave Pasco's article he suggests building a frame for it to sit on. I was looking at what Strick did and his framed in pieces of wood were glassed to the stringers and resting on the center stringer. My coffin is completely flat, would I still need to build up some support on the bottom to keep it from being in direct contact with water and allow air to flow under it? I'll post some pics of what it looks like in there. Thanks guys!

Dirty SeaCraft

[zach]

Things I'm currently doing to mine to counteract the extra weight in the transom:

-Batts under console.
-Fuel tank forward. Pushing it all the way up to the bulkhead.
-Oil tank under console (guess that doesn't concern you, though)
-Console forward 4-6 inches.

[Gary Hill]

Try Eastern Burlap in Norfolk, they send materails all over and have almost anything you need.

[SonOfABeach]

I found a local supply for Coosa except they only carry Bluewater 26 and in 1/2" 3/4" and 1" sheets. Would there be any advantage of 1" + 1/2" over (2) 3/4" sheets, (2) 3/4" sheets is ~$30 less than 1" + 1/2" but if I dont mind going either way if its better. Also gluing the pieces together, layer of glass inbetween (mat? biaxial?), or just thickened epoxy (Thickened with cabosil?), I've seen both on here?

So my procedures (make sure I'm not leaving anything out).

• Finish grinding out the existing outer transom skin, wash and then clean with acetone several times
• measure and cut the coosa and then epoxy the two pieces of coosa together
• test fit new core and grind out as necessary if needed, drill 3/8" weep holes in the core
• lay down a layer of 1708 on the inside of the outer transom skin then when its tacky lay another layer of 1708 on top of that
• slather back of core with cabosil thickened epoxy and set it in place and clamp down, clean up the extra epoxy that weeps through holes/top/bottom/sides, using extra along sides and bottom to form a radius for the glass to lay up against easier
• after that sets up remove clamps and glass over new core with layers of 1708 each over lapping the previous (4" beyond transom, then 8", then 12", then 16")...(how many layers do i need?)
• let that set up, and admire my new rock solid transom while enjoying a cold beverage

I miss anything?

[SonOfABeach]

Try Eastern Burlap in Norfolk, they send materails all over and have almost anything you need.

Yup thats the place I mentioned in the post right before this, was writing it up when you responded. Thanks!

[gofastsandman]

Just the next 50 yrs.